DKC Atlas Forum

[Cyclone]

The only time I have is the amount of motivation and energy I have. So...

Anyways this should work.

[Qyzbud]

Yep, that one works, and it's looking pretty good; it should match up fairly well with the worm's-eye shot.

I hope your motivation can hold out for a while yet... You're building something pretty amazing here.

[Super Luigi!]

Never give up on your dreams, Cyclone, even if it breaks your heart! People used to tell me, "SL, you'll never amount to anything." But just look at me now! Go get 'em, tiger!

[sonosublime]

Looking pretty awesome, Cyclone. And I love Qyzbud's idea for the low angle shot when DK lands. But I think your version of it needs a bit more 'oomph'. Have DK land directly in front of the camera so that only his feet show as the dust cloud errupts, and then the camera rotates up to look up at the rest of him. And maybe have the camera shake a little when he lands. Also, he shouldn't be smiling - he should be looking worried, anxious, and downright pissed at this point!

[Cyclone]

Ok he is angry now. and lands with a cloud of dust/dirt with camera shake. I think it looks pretty decent. Oh and ignore the rough animation at the end. I ran out of time...

I thought about deforming the ground, making a small crater but not sure if that's necessary.

[Cyclone]

New version. Added 2 new shots. The birds I did not model. But I will model simple birds my self in the future. I need a transition shot from DK landing on the ground to him walking into the banana hoard. Was Qyzbud's suggestion.
There also are a few sound effects added.

[Cyclone]

A quick wip of donkey kong running in dkc returns style.

Suggestions are welcome.

[sonosublime]

I very much like the sequence with the sounds effects. Very nice.

Some suggestions:
1. Reduce the camera shaking a bit. DK is not causing an earthquake
2. Make the dust cloud smaller. Again, DK is not a meteorite.

The running cycle looks quite good, but it needs to be faster. Also, the way the arms and legs move in conjunction with each other makes it look like he is leaping rather than running.

Referring to DK's sprite sheet (http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/dkc/sheet/45659/) from the spriters' resource (http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/dkc/) should help out with this.

Also, I came across some tutorials regarding the rule of thirds that you should check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsRy5EVg ... EACBFEE65F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDZpZTzn ... ZiQ_aflzqV

You can ignore the Source Filmmaker specific stuff, but the rest of the info is very important to know.

[Cyclone]

Thanks again sonosublime.

I chose to use the run from DKC returns instead. However my version doesn't really look like the one in the game.

It also looks a bit floaty. Might be do to the lighting.



Edit. His vertical movement got a little messed up. But you can see it looks better right at the begining, the first cycle.

[Qyzbud]

That's certainly a more complete cycle, and it's not looking too bad. Obviously the weight/momentum and limb movements are a little off, so hopefully it'll start to look a lot nicer with a few tweaks to those aspects.

Something subtle, but important, is that DK's right arm is supposed to start its motion before his right leg, and same for the left arm/leg. Currently, they look to be connecting with the ground, and pushing off, at just about the same time, which looks very unnatural. If you make sure his arms are doing their thing a fraction of a second earlier than his legs, I think we'll see a strong improvement to the flow of his movements.

Good luck!

[Cyclone]

Thanks Qyzbud, I will see what I can do to make it better.

[Cyclone]

Ok, I think this version is much better. However it still looks a little floaty looking. Got any ideas? Thanks.

Not to sound arrogant but I think I'm getting a tinny bit better at animating. Probably will have to eat those words though

[Qyzbud]

It definitely looks a lot better with some separation between the limbs, but I think you'll get a better result if you follow my previous suggestion more closely; If you study DK's movements in-game (DKCR), you'll see that his arms lead the motion, followed by his legs. I know it's less apparent in Retro's run cycle than it was in Rare's, but DK's strength lies in his chest and arms more so than his legs, and you will get a more convincing motion/momentum from him if you keep that in mind.

If you don't mind an equine analogy, I feel like DK is 'trotting' here when he should be 'galloping'. I'd say that's due to the frequency of his up and down motion — it should be happening once per cycle, rather than twice.*

Sorry if that was poorly worded; if you would like me to clarify any of this, just let me know.


Edit: After re-watching a few times, I think it his up and down 'bounce' is only happening once per cycle — it's just that the cycle is so fast that it's hard to get a feel for it. Actually, I'm starting to think the bounce doesn't match up quite right with the animation, and that it might be going "out of phase" as he makes his way across the screen... perhaps take a look at that, and make sure the bounce is occurring when it's supposed to throughout the animation.

[Phyreburnz]

It's funny that you should use the analogy of Dk's running like that of a horse. Rare modeled his running after a horse, because they didn't like a gorilla's running movement (or because they don't run too frequently).

[Qyzbud]

I do remember hearing that at some point, and I can definitely see it in his movements... I suppose the analogy is pretty relevant, then.

[Cyclone]

Yes that is true. That is partially why I didn't go with Rare's version of the running.
After looking at it again the limbs need more contact with the ground, it should look like each hand/foot are "pushing/pulling himself forward" on the ground. or something like that.

[Cyclone]

Made some changes. I think in the right direction. I slowed down the actual cycle and fixed the up and down motion a bit. Did some edits to his left arm.

Note. It may look like he is floating over the ground a bit. I was animating it in preview mode and it didn't look like it was floating cuzz the ground was white.



So what do you think. Keep the comment coming.

[Qyzbud]

His bounce is looking a bit better, and the cycle's speed is an improvement, but probably a bit slow now — just slightly.

Also, you seem to have his arms and legs on a different cycle rate... or something. Hard to pick what the timing is meant to be when it's out of sync.

[Phyreburnz]

Cyclone, I think this video may help you out a bit. Although there are only a few seconds worth of it right in the middle of the video, it still shows male gorillas running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPJTfGhAjSI

It's pretty neat and you can really see the movement well.

[Cyclone]

just a curiosity. youtube shows the animation only viewed once... but how can that be if the 3 of you watched it and commented on it already. I since refreshed the screen 5 times. confused... hmm

[Qyzbud]

I think it takes a while for new views to register on the counter. I must've watched it four or five times myself.

Edit ~4 minutes later: I just took a peek, and YouTube reported 7 views — that's more like it.

[Cyclone]

hmm that's still not right. When I said I refreshed it 5 times it instantly showed 5 views. Anyways.

Edit oh I think i get it. Simion and phyreburnz must have watched it embedded in the topic and not on youtube.

[Phyreburnz]

I watched it on youtube... that's quite strange.

[Qyzbud]

There shouldn't be any difference between the embedded player and the YouTube page playback when it comes to reporting 'views'; there's a good chance that it immediately registers your own views locally, just so that you don't wonder why it's not showing up. I know some web services behave in such a way. That said, it really shouldn't register your own views anyway; some people would be inclined to play their own videos over and over again to boost view counts.

Of course, you can always register multiple accounts to get around such metric-meddling mitigation, but hey. Best not to fuss about such things, I think.

[Cyclone]

Does this look better? I tried to not have the legs and arms moving with each other.

[Cyclone]

Here this should be better now. He should look like he "leading with his arms" more like Qyzbud suggested.

His left arm looks like its swinging. Need to fix that.

Some bugs but is this going in the right direction Qyzbud?

[Qyzbud]

Yes, this looks to be the nicest version yet; I think you're absolutely on the right track now.

There's something about his legs that looks a bit odd in this cycle, though — the way they extend, and for how long, perhaps? It's hard to tell exactly.

[Phyreburnz]

I agree with Qyz. It looks almost like his heel is stretching back, I think.

[Mattrizzle]

Hard to explain, but his torso needs to bounce more as he moves. D.K. almost looks like he's swimming in the current animation.

[Cyclone]

There's something about his legs that looks a bit odd in this cycle, though — the way they extend, and for how long, perhaps? It's hard to tell exactly.

I changed the legs so they don't stretch out as much and the limbs look like they have more contact with the ground now. I also add some head bobbing but it might make the animation a little awkward looking?

I will see about the torso movement. This is the current version. Good enough?

[sonosublime]

That looks great dude.

[Cyclone]

Thanks.

I added a new shot. I tried to create the feel that DK is traveling in a dense jungle. There is still lots of foliage to add and create. I also added a few more sound effects. It might be a little loud so a bit of a warning.

Thanks for viewing and for leaving comments if you do so.

[Qyzbud]

I think DK's angry expression and aggressive behaviour (pounding his chest, etc.) ought to be saved for after he's seen that his hoard is missing; until he sees the situation with his own eyes, he should just be in a rather panicked state, and in a hurry to check out his hoard.

As it is, I think he jumps too far away from the treehouse/hoard; he's eager to look inside, so jumping that far out just doesn't make sense. I think he should land nearer to the cave entrance, quickly look around side to side (as in, for one second or so) to see if there's anything going on in the jungle, then turn quickly (DKCR's turning animation is excellent — use that!) and gallop into the cave.

This is how I think his expressions should be:

1. Sleepy, when/if seen dozing in bed;
2. Surprised (and still a bit sleepy), when first woken up by Cranky;
3. Annoyed (when the first two emotions/expressions subside), due to being so rudely awakened;
4. Concerned (and a little panicked), when hearing that his little buddy/bananas might be missing;
5. Shocked/Panicked, when he sees that the bananas are gone, and Diddy's nowhere to be seen;
6. Furious/determined, when the shock/panic wear off, and he puts on his game face.

Such a range of expressions may be tricky to get right, but I've seen you do quite well with them in the past, and I think it's important for this animation.

Also, I really think you need to work on DK's roll; the pose is too rigid, and his hands should be tucked in near his toes/face, as I posted a while back.

The sound effects are a good start, and they work pretty well. It's nice to see DK's run cycle making its story debut, too.

[Cyclone]

I think DK's angry expression and aggressive behaviour (pounding his chest, etc.) ought to be saved for after he's seen that his hoard is missing; until he sees the situation with his own eyes, he should just be in a rather panicked state, and in a hurry to check out his hoard.

I was following sonosublim's suggestion that he should be angry when coming out of the house. Also DKCR/TF DK pounds his chest when he leaves his house. I was going for something like that.

As it is, I think he jumps too far away from the treehouse/hoard; he's eager to look inside, so jumping that far out just doesn't make sense. I think he should land nearer to the cave entrance, quickly look around side to side (as in, for one second or so) to see if there's anything going on in the jungle, then turn quickly (DKCR's turning animation is excellent — use that!) and gallop into the cave.

Perhaps he is jumping a little too far out. I wanted to have the cave entrance and house visible in background and composition. I will probably leave it as is. Or maybe change it after I create more scene and have a fresh look at it.

This is how I think his expressions should be:

1. Sleepy, when/if seen dozing in bed;
2. Surprised (and still a bit sleepy), when first woken up by Cranky;
3. Annoyed (when the first two emotions/expressions subside), due to being so rudely awakened;
4. Concerned (and a little panicked), when hearing that his little buddy/bananas might be missing;
5. Shocked/Panicked, when he sees that the bananas are gone, and Diddy's nowhere to be seen;
6. Furious/determined, when the shock/panic wear off, and he puts on his game face.

Such a range of expressions may be tricky to get right, but I've seen you do quite well with them in the past, and I think it's important for this animation.

Yes very important. It will be a bit tricky to get right. He doesn't have a human like face so expressions are hard.

Also, I really think you need to work on DK's roll; the pose is too rigid, and his hands should be tucked in near his toes/face, as I posted a while back.

yea I hear ya. I do like the roll but I will take your advice and play around with it some more after I get more scenes done. The first act ends when DK sees his hoard missing. Once I complete that and add more shots with Diddy in the hoard I will go over all the scenes and fix any remaining issues and polish things up.

Thanks Qyzbud for the detailed suggestions as always.

[sonosublime]

Looking good, Cyclone. The scene is really coming together.

Some suggestions:
1. Reduce the camera shaking a bit when DK lands.
2. Make the dust cloud smaller.

I also agree with Cyclone about the facial expressions. What I meant was that when he leaves his house, he should not be looking goofy/happy, which some of your earlier versions had.

[Cyclone]

Thanks but I would like to do the animation myself. even if it's difficult. Your animation was good.

Here is the first shot of the next and final scene in act 1. DK entering the hoard to see his bananas missing.



There is much to be done. I will add a couple of shots in between when DK is alone and when Cranky walks in. There will maybe be a close up showing DK's expression when he first looks at the missing bananas.

Andy feed back regarding shots I can add would be great.

[Cyclone]

Added some shots. What do you think? Ideas suggestions. thanks

[sonosublime]

Looking really good! I can't really suggest anything.

[Cyclone]

Your the one with the ideas. You wrote the script. hmm

Anyhow I changed the lighting and added some dust particles. Added two new shots. The snake at the beginning moves too fast. And there needs work on the animations.

[sonosublime]

Well, I don't know what you want me to suggest. As long as it doesn't deviate from the script too much.

For this latest version, however, while it does look better than the previous one, I notice these issues:
1. The dust particles, while they look good, are a bit too much. I would reduce the amount. Also, scale down their size even further during the close up shots, because seeing glittering stars flying through the air looks kind of weird.
2. DK is looking up when his eyes pop out of his head. He should be looking down/level.
3. In the script, DK does not get angry until after Cranky comes in and berates him further.
4. The cone of light from the cave entrance should be straight rather than curved. Also maybe find a way to blend it in with the ambient cave lighting.

Other than that, looking good.

[Cyclone]

Thanks sonosublime for your feed back. I was taking a few shortcuts... and I agree totally with your suggestions. Thanks.

Here is another compilation of all the scenes put together of the entire project.
It seems kinda boring. Don't know if that's cuzz I watched it so many times or what.

What do you guys think of it so far?



Also the scenes where dk is talking to cranky are just place holders. Got any suggestions on what body language should be animated during the talking. I ask cuzz there is a lot of time with subtitles and seems kinda long.

Thanks everyone for your continued and valuable feedback.

Edit* the animation is now 2min 41 sec. I expect the first act to be about 3-5 min.

[Qyzbud]

It's nice to see the full sequence thus far.

Obviously things are still looking very draft-like; I'm not sure if you have a checklist of what needs improving, but here are a few things I can suggest:

Intro

• 0:00 Plain "It was a dark and stormy night..." text could be more like as seen here
• 0:04 Baddies are still moving backwards initially.
• 0:07 There's no character animation; subtle body/fur movement would help.
• 0:09 DK is not in his bed
• 0:10 No movement in curtains, despite the stormy weather.
• 0:22 Monitor calibration bars visible.
• 0:27 Perhaps an excessive number of flashes/amount of time before Diddy turns around (he's a smart/quick little guy, after all).
• 0:32 Some stalactites are floating in mid-air
• 0:33 Krusha could obviously be improved/refined.

Title

Looks amazing — no improvements necessary.

Island

• 0:50 A bit of ocean transparency would look great, especially on the shoreline.
• 0:51 Some mist or a similar effect to blur the horizon line would be good, too.
• 0:52 Smoke coming from the smokestacks could be improved in a few ways — billowing, transparency, gradual dissipation, etc...

Wake-up scene

• 1:08 DK still rolls from facing wall, after looking around room.
• 1:09 A little bounce/jostle in the tyre's movement might look good.
• 1:10 DK's right foot and leg (on the left, from our view) look distorted, banana clips through his left leg. ← NEW
• 1:12 Clipping between Cranky's fur and right eyebrow (his right, our left).
• 1:14 (and elsewhere) Tread of tyre is see-through. ← NEW
• 1:15 DK's pupils flicker, tie is partially black, Cranky (and lighting in general) is of draft quality.
• 1:16 DK seems to get his guard up a little too early (his reaction time ought to be a bit slower — half a second, maybe?). ← NEW
• 1:17 Bounding boxes of scene objects are visible, tyre moves on its own, etc...

Added since first posted:

Dialogue speed: I might just be a slow reader, but it seems as though all of the dialogue text is a bit hard to read through in the time we're given — even just having one more second per line would help a lot, I think.

Outside treehouse

• 1:36 DK's rolling pose still looks goofy as anything.
• 1:37 DK's jumping pose looks deformed around the shoulders, and the skin of his ankles clip through the fur.
• 1:38 That dust cloud when DK lands is a bit excessive, completely dominating the view; I think it ought to be much smaller and more subtle — a "nice little touch" rather than an overwhelming spectacle.
• 1:40 The dust particles fall like clumps of dirt, and are sized in such a way, too; perhaps a few small clumps could be part of the effect, but I would think it ought to be mainly just a small cloud of fine dust. What you have here would certainly require that a crater/deformed ground be part of the scene, but I personally don't think that a massive cloud like this is the way to go.
• 1:41 A gentle breeze in the trees would look good here.
• 1:48 The tree trunks are moving in a rather unnatural manner.

Empty banana cave

• 1:49 As has been mentioned, the cone of light coming in should be straight (perhaps continuing at its initial angle, towards the upper-left corner) rather than curved. It'd also look good for the light to fade a little at the top edge. Come to think of it, I might again just be rephrasing what sono said earlier...
• 1:50 Not only does the snake (a Slippa, surely?) move to fast, but it appears to be hovering a foot or so above the ground, and its shadow is being cast on the wrong side (assuming the cave entrance is supposed to be the dominant light source). The snake also needs textures (it it's supposed to look like a normal Slippa), and a slither
  animation.
• 1:52 DK's back legs move/are posed really weirdly.
• 2:00 etc. As awesome as it looks, that confetti-dust is certainly a bit out of place; smaller, plain-shaped, monochromatic particles would be my suggestion.

[Phyreburnz]

Very nice so far!

I did notice an inconsistency when DK is being woken up by Cranky. DK opens his eyes and sees Cranky's feet, but when we see DK, his back is facing Cranky.

[sonosublime]

Looking very nice, my friend!

I have some suggestions for improvement/some issues I noticed:
1. "It was a dark and stormy night..." should fade in.
2. Do not add scene changes (fade in/outs, dissolves, etc), unless the script specifically states so.
3. Take away the second shot of zooming in toward DK sleeping.
4. Make the shots in the treehouse last a little longer. They change so fast, and it's a little jarring.
5. After you zoom toward DK's window, have another shot, showing the stormy jungle outside, and then zoom in toward the cave entrance/banana hoard, before starting the banana hoard scene.
6. Give Diddy eyes.
7. Add the shots with him pacing up and down and panicking to himself, before the Kremlings appear.
8. When the title appears, have the screen start out black, and then have the title fade in (over the black) and slowly move toward the screen. After a few seconds of this, then the clouds and Squawks can appear. This is to give the sequence a little more time for me to fit the music to it.
9. Have DK roll out of bed a bit faster.
10. Reduce the camera shaking and dust cloud when DK lands from his treehouse.
11. The snake moves too fast.
12. When Cranky walks, his arm holds the cane too high. Either reduce the length of the cane, or have Cranky hold onto it at a lower point.
13. DK should turn to face Cranky when he starts talking.
14. Keep the text size of the subtitles consistent. If you need more room, just go on to a second line.
15. Move the animation where DK starts looking angry to right before he says, "I don't know who did this, but whoever they are..." That way, there will be a slight pause in the dialogue to add more emphasis.
16. Every now and then, I notice spelling mistakes and missed letters and apostrophes in the subtitles.

A couple more things:
1. The animation might seem a little bland at the moment, but trust me, once all the music, sounds and dialogue is added in, it will look great.
2. I suggest going with this workflow for a scene:
Do the basic animation, including leaving time for dialogue, etc.
Once the scene is basically finished, go through and refine everything:
- Refine the camera movements. This will make a scene much more dynamic and interesting. Again, make sure you use the Rule of Thirds. Also, something I like to do for a longer shot is have the camera slowly pan to the side (but not by much). The scene itself does not really change, but adding this slight camera movement will make it much more interesting.
- Refine the animations. When someone is talking, every now and then, have them glance off to the side, gesture with their hands, blinking, make the characters look at each other, change facial expressions, etc. Think about idle things you do when you're talking to someone.

Once you've refined the scene, send it to me, and I can add the music and subtitles/dialogue.

[Cyclone]

Thanks for the detailed responses. Sorry for taking so long to reply. Mario Kart 8 was getting more attention.
I will paste the comments in the first post as some sort of checklist. If anyone has further things need changing I will put them in there.

Qyzbud what do you suggest for a font?

[Cyclone]

Here is a revised title as Qyzbud suggested. The font is like the manual text.

[Cyclone]

I'm going through all the shots now and updating them, this will be a beta phase for this project.

Here is DK island. There is no longer an outline around the island, added some clouds(still have to animate them), added more realistic smoke, transparency on shoreline and fog in the horizon. Suggestions? Qyzbud I know awhile back you had some.

[Qyzbud]

Every change you've made looks like an improvement to my eyes.

• Obviously those clouds will be developed in time, so I won't critique them at this stage — except maybe to point out that the layering of them over Gorilla Glacier seems to break the smoothness of their transparency. I'm sure that's an easy fix.
• The smoke billowing from Kremkroc Industries looks better, but its animation needs to be a lot slower; having the smoke move so fast kind of ruins the impression of scale.
• I'm not sure what's going on with the trees of Vine Valley, but there looks to be some odd ghosting at the very start of the clip. It looks like a light blue/grey colour "fringe" that fades away as the scene zooms in. There also seems to be more aliasing on these trees than anywhere else on the scene — perhaps due to fine details (this is a very minor nitpick, but I don't have many critiques to make, so I thought I'd mention it for good measure ).
• Oh, the bright blue colour in DK's window is another minor nitpick; I'm sure that would have been changed sometime soon, regardless of me mentioning it.

Keep up the good work, Cyclone!

[Cyclone]

Thanks Qyzbud, Anymore critiques. The shape of the island, maybe some tree moving int the wind? Starfish on the shoreline?


I added a new shot that will be placed right before DK wakes up. It may also replace this shot.

New shot, used twice?


I intend to have it all one camera movement not split up into two shots. And yes the Gnawty is floating... I think he needs fur. what do you guys think?

I made some revisions to the island shot. Improved the horizon, animated the clouds and fixed the black edges somewhat. The smoke also moves slower but it still needs work.

[Phyreburnz]

I suggest extending the hill on which the treehouse sits. The way it currently looks seems a little bit awkward. I think that if you make the hill extend behind the house, rather than just having it directly underneath the treehouse would look better.

I'm also a little bit confused. In the island shot, the treehouse is clearly on the ground, but the close up shows it on the hill.